/abs/ - Absurdism

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>Back in the 1930s, the anthropologist Gregory Bateson coined the term ‘schismogenesis’ to describe people’s tendency to define themselves against one another. Imagine two people getting into an argument about some minor political disagreement but, after an hour, ending up taking positions so intransigent that they find themselves on completely opposite sides of some ideological divide – even taking extreme positions they would never embrace under ordinary circumstances, just to show how much they completely reject the other’s points. They start out as moderate social democrats of slightly different flavours; before a few heated hours are over, one has somehow become a Leninist, the other an advocate of the ideas of Milton Friedman. We know this kind of thing can happen in arguments. Bateson suggested such processes can become institutionalized on a cultural level as well. How, he asked, do boys and girls in Papua New Guinea come to behave so differently, despite the fact that no one ever explicitly instructs them about how boys and girls are supposed to behave? It’s not just by imitating their elders; it’s also because boys and girls each learn to find the behaviour of the opposite sex distasteful and try to be as little like them as possible. What start as minor learned differences become exaggerated until women come to think of themselves as, and then increasingly actually become, everything that men are not. And, of course, men do the same thing towards women.
Came across this while reading some book about anthropology and thought it was something Discordians should be intimately familiar with.
Replies: >>595
Of course. After all, if you aren't the opposite of all the things you're not, how do you know you aren't them?
Replies: >>585
>>568
I disagree. Since everything is not everything else, if this path was taken, life would be nothing but continuously asserting what you are not. Therefore we should focus on what is positive in a thing, what makes a thing a thing, and not on what makes it not that other thing.
Replies: >>586
>>585
>life would be nothing but continuously asserting what you are not.
is that not the definition of homeostasis?
Replies: >>587
>>586
No, homeostasis is about maintaining an internal state.
Replies: >>588
>>587
how is that different from defining what is "external" and rejecting it?
Replies: >>589
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>>588
Because it is internal? Example: when you exercise, your muscles generate heat and the blood is used to transfer the heat to your skin, from where it is "liberated" into the environment. This is not about your body asserting itself against the environment, and your muscles do not suddenly become "external" to yourself.
Replies: >>591
>They start out as moderate social democrats of slightly different flavours; before a few heated hours are over, one has somehow become a Leninist, the other an advocate of the ideas of Milton Friedman.
Was the change permanent? How was the experimental setting for this?

In some environments people tend to spread evenly across the idea space, in other's they stay stubbornly in place. For problem solving the first case is obviously more beneficial, since with such multitude of perspectives coming up with the right answer is more likely. For actually enacting any solution you need the latter, since you need people to argee about if the solution was the right one in the first place, among other things. Faster the group can go through the cycle of disagreement and agreement, the more nimbly they can navigate through the storm.
>>589
>This is not about your body asserting itself against the environment
It could very easily be framed as such.
Replies: >>592
>>591
That framing could very easily be shown to be wrong.
Replies: >>593
>>592
And you have done so how?
Losing homeostasis is equivalent to death. Death is equivalent to dissolution of the self. Dissolution of the self is equivalent to the transformation from self into other. The body does not want to die so it asserts that it is not other, for instance by maintaining a stable internal temperature, as something with temperature too high is dead, aka not the self.

Care to point out what is wrong about this?
Replies: >>594 >>596
>>593
You aren't me, but you're clearly not the opposite either. Both differences and similarities can be used to define self, what is self if there's nothing around to compare it to?
Replies: >>598
>>567
Thank you, now I understand Buddha better.
>>593
Simply because there is no Other. Both the heat generation and the thermoregulation are processes of the thing. It is not opposing itself to some Other, but rather reaffirms what is positive in itself.
Replies: >>598
>>594
>You aren't me, but you're clearly not the opposite either.
Sure I am, I am contained in not-you, which is the opposite of you.
I'm not the *whole* of not-you, of course. I am not identically your opposite. But I am contained in your opposite.
>>596
>Simply because there is no Other.
Tell that to people who have organ transplants and have to take drugs to trick their body into thinking that someone else's organ is their own.
>It is not opposing itself to some Other, but rather reaffirms what is positive in itself.
as you can see, both of these points of view are equally valid. A very good application of Discordian dialectics!
Replies: >>599
>>598
>Sure I am, I am contained in not-you, which is the opposite of you
I'm not sure if this is true. If I were fully contained in "not-you", none of the parts of me would be the parts of you. This may be true physically but in other fields you cannot prevent me from leaking into you. The property of "having teeth" is a property that defines me as much as it defines you. These words are labeled as "mine" but whose brain they are surfing around again? If you'd actually want to define yourself as "not me", I'm afraid there would be very little left for you. I'd find life painful within such narrow borders.
Replies: >>600 >>601
>>599
>This may be true physically but in other fields you cannot prevent me from leaking into you. 
tsk, this belies a lack of imagination! You ought to embrace pilot-wave theory, then everything is gloriously nonlocal
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>>599
> you cannot prevent me from leaking into you.
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